Pride and Prejudice

2004-03-05T16:06:00.000-05:00

Well I needed to do one more blogg and I don't really have much to say. The only thing I want to talk about is how I realized that a lot of Jane Austen's life is reflected not only in Pride and Prejudice, but in many of her other books. I thought back to the discussions that we had outside that day, and when I heard the summaries of the other books I realized that a lot of herself, and her family was in the books that she wrote.

2004-03-05T06:25:00.000-05:00

Okay, last blog, whew! Well, to sum up what i thought about the book as well as this assignment, i really liked both and i enjoyed the blogging except for the fact that i dont have internet soit was a little hard for me to do this assignment and running to the library so much. But enough complaining, i'm proud of lizzy and in response to ashley's earlier blog with her comparision to me i guess that you can say that i dont conform, but to realte it to the victorian era it shows how not all women conformed to the society that they were born in. i mean if you look at todays society you see the feminists, then the radicals, as well as other groups of people who just dont conform. i like that. lizzy is actually what kept me reading the book (as well as mrs. bennet) because since one character was a bit different and the other a bit extreme it allowed for the reader to experience a few laughs here and there (at least i did)

2004-03-04T11:20:00.000-05:00

Re Leanna's comment about pride and prejudice (the concepts). No, they don't have to go hand in hand. I know this was a big topic of discussion very early in the blogging, but I think I sort of missed out on that since I was reading A Tale of Two Cities at first. I've always read the title as referring to Darcy and Elizabeth, respectively. Darcy's most notable trait is his pride, and Elizabeth's her prejudice. As the book progresses, however, it's interesting to watch Elizabeth lose a bit of her prejudice and Darcy lose a bit of his pride. Or maybe the traits just get restructured a little.

2004-03-04T09:01:00.000-05:00

To answer LeAnna's question, I think that you can have one without the other in both instances. You can have a lot of pride in yourself but still be more conscious towards other peoples actions and differences. Along the other lines you can be prejudice towards a group of people but still not have a lot of pride in yourself and your people, because it could be an instance where you don't like yourself and your own people. I can see those instances in the book that you would be referring to though.

2004-03-04T06:53:00.000-05:00

Well in response to LeAnna's blog i do think that a person can be prideful and not predujiced or vice versa. Why? Well, take for instance the people in today's society. First of all, pride is something that you can have in yourself, while being prejudiced is something that you feel towards others. So if something thinks very highly of themself and becomes proud in a way where they think they are better than others, then that doesn't necesarily mean that they are prejudiced. But that also brings about the question if someone thinks that they are better than someone else, doesn't that call for prejudice. I mena seriously, isn't that what prejudice is. Thibnking that others are beneath you, and that they should betreated a certain way becuase they are not up to your levels or standards? So in answering your question LeAnna i think that they can go hand in hand because pride and prejudice are both things that can alter your views towards people and whenever people feel that others are not like them, or that they arent up to their level, they do sometimes look down on them.

2004-03-04T02:50:00.000-05:00

I hope this counts as a post. This question just popped into my head. I don't know if anyone will anser it but whatever. Can a person be prideful and not prejudiced, or prejudiced and not prideful? or do the two go ahand in hand? I've noticed a lot of instances where they are referenced together in the book.

2004-03-04T02:26:00.000-05:00

In this blog I think i'm going to talk about some of the relationships etween characters. Maybe someone has already talked about htis; sorry if they did. since you know what this one's about already feel free to skip it. Anyway, starting with the obvious, the relationship between Lizzy and Darcy starts off straaaiiinnned. He's too prejudiced against her she's too prejudiced against him. but does it matter? I kind of see it as starting off as prejudice, but then it turned into flirting. People are always saying that if a girl hits a boy she likes him. I would guess it works both ways. I don't know, just a thought. Lizzy and Jane are the two most rational or the five daughters. They remind me of Mr. Bennet. Lydia and Kitty remind me of Mrs. Bennet, i can picture them acting the same way she acts towards their own daugthers. Back to Jane and Lizzy, they talk to each other and respect each others thoughts and opinions. Between Lizzy and Wickham there was a relationship forming, but it was based on some misconceptions. Which, by the way, were casued by Lizzy's prejudice against Darcy. Jane told her that the stories Wickham were telling her didn't sound like Darcy to her, and usually she has a high regard for Jane, but not this time. She doesn't even know Wikham but she takes all the things he says as truth because she 'doesn't like"(or does she?) Darcy. Anyway, what i was trying to say was that the relationship between Lizzy and Wikham wasn't real, and even though someone seems nice it doesn't mean they are. WHich leads me to believe, just becasue someone seems prejudiced, it doesn't mean there are. But now that i think about that i don't know if i believe it. Not my point though, I'm just putting my thoughts out here. Okay, I'm not sure how much of that made sense, but there it is. No more blabbing in this one.

2004-03-03T20:54:00.000-05:00

Well this is kind of off the topic of actually talking about the book, I wanted to talk about our discussions in class today. When we go into our groups according to and talked about our books, I found it interesting that the books had a lot in common. All of the books that were read in our group dealt with the topic of marriage. From that I am guessing that marriage was very important during the Victorian times, so I gained new insight into how important it was. I also wanted to say that I found many of the books interesting and I thought that the plots seemed ahead of the time for some of the books.

2004-03-03T11:04:00.000-05:00

In response to Jamie's blog, no i haven't read any of Austen's other books, but i think that this one is enough for me. Yes, i really did enjoy it, but if this was not a class assignment, i probably wouldn't have read it. But even though this isn't the type of book that i would read in my free or spare time, i really did enjoy the way Austen portrayed her characters, and how she woved..or is it woven? i don't know . but how the characters interacted with each other and how each one related or had something to do with each others situations was great. maybe you guys quite dont understand what im trying to say, but the reading was very easy. even though there were big words in the novel here and there, i didn't have to run and get a dictionary to see what they meant. if i had the time, i probably could've read it in one sitting (that's how interesting it was too me) am i contradiciting myself?

2004-03-03T06:38:00.000-05:00

In all, I'm so glad that I read this novel. I really liked it. I think Austen did a great job of telling the story like it really would have occurred at that time period. I was sort of worried that she would feminize it all, and that would make it unrealistic, because women were subordinate to men in that time period. In Lizzy, I think she shows the early threads of a feminist movement. She shows that even way back then, some women just didn't quite conform to society's role for them. Anyway, great book, great characters? I want to read another book by Austen. Has anyone read any of her others?

2004-03-03T00:03:00.000-05:00

Firstly, I would like to respond to Allen's comment that "mostly all of the characters stuck out." Really, I see three characters that stick out. Elizabeth, because she is the protagonist; Darcy, because he is the protagonist's male counterpart; and Mrs. Bennet, because she is probably the most annoying and bothersome character I have ever come into contact with, in fiction or real life. Outside of these characters, I don't think Austen developed the other characters very deeply at all. We familiarized ourselves with them mostly through dialogue, and I don't feel that we knew their personalities very well at all. From the research I've done looking for literary critiques, I've learned that Austen wrote about her surroudings. She wasn't exposed to much outside of her homelife, so she wrote about what was familiar to her. The characters are normal people, and I wouldn't consider them to be extraordinarily fascinating or really even that interesting. The interest in the story lies in Austen's observances on daily life and, primarily, the progression of the relationship between Elizabeth and Darcy. I would argue that the characters themselves are not as worthy of distinction as is Austen's exquisite writing. It always took me a few paragraphs to reorient myself to her formal style, but I love her beautiful language, and it is worth reading the book just to experience her writing.

2004-03-02T23:56:00.000-05:00

2004-03-02T23:37:00.000-05:00

Part of what bothers me about this book is that I had expected a more feminist viewpoint from Austen, because that was what I had experienced before with female authors from previous time periods. The characters in Pride and Prejudice are women of their time period--I don't mean to generalize, there are always exceptions--but none of them are really feminist or even in my opinion assertive, with the possible exception of Elizabeth and her smart mouth. The women just let the men control society and their lives with little of their own influence. For example, when Bingley leaves Netherfield, Jane just waits for him without any contact or any real idea of what's going on with their relationship. Even when Lydia goes off with Wickham, her family just sits back without going after her, while they are more affected by her actions than anyone else. They are generally submissive and typical of the conservative viewpoint of women.

2004-03-02T23:23:00.000-05:00

Ok so last blog. what else could i possibly say about this novel that i haven't already said or without restating what everyone else has said already. So let me think here. Initially when i chose this book i had not the slightest clue what this book was about. For some reason i thought this book had something to do with law just by the sound of it. Probably because its "PreJUDICE" not "Justice". ok, well whatever. I liked this book regardless of its disappointing first impression. I support the cause in which the book was written and i enjoyed the outcome of the novel. Mostly all the characters stuck out and forced the reader to form opinions about the integrity of each character. I enjoyed watching both Elizabeth's character form and transform as well as Darcy. This book would be one of the better choices for the victorian novels. Thank you everyone for giving your insight on the novels and analysis because it really did give me a better understanding of the novel and expanded my ideas and thoughts.

"Elizabeth's on the left. She doesn't conform with others."

2004-03-02T22:08:00.000-05:00

Well I am trying to finish my blogs too, and after reading Faith's blog, I can say that Lizzy is kind of like Faith (with the loud mouth and sisters who she isn't like). But on a different topic, I wanted to talk about how all of the women's reputations seemed to be so important in the novel. This can be seen throughout the whole novel from when Elizabeth gets talked about when she walks to Netherfield, and even when she is asked to refuse Darcy's proposal at the end of the novel. That made me really upset because living in this day I don't think that she should be made to jeopardize her happiness just because of a family name, but also because I do not like it when people interfere in your business all of the time, I am happy that Elizabeth continued to be headstrong, and end up happy in the end.

2004-03-02T20:00:00.000-05:00

Well, i'm still trying to finish up my blogs, but i am still in love with Lizzy's charcter. She is such a fun loving, unpredictable person! I mean the things that she says out of her mouth, as well as some of the things that she does are just amazing! Now Jane, she was such a dull character. I guess maybe she was needed in the book to show the contrast in her and her sister Jane, as well as to show how women at that time were supposed to act. From reading this book i really am able to appreciate the society that we live in today and realize that women were not always treated the way that we are used to being treated today. I kind of find it interesting that the way women are today, having business positions in the coporate world and making more money than ever, that men are looking for women like these to marry instead of the other way around. I think that of course there needs to be more progress but when you look back at the english society, we have definately made some serious progress. But to relate this back to the book, the pride as well as the prejudices were greatly seen.

2004-03-02T19:34:00.000-05:00

I agree completely. Miss Bingley and Lady Catherine de Bourgh were every bit as unbearable as the character of Mrs. Bennet for me. Actually, I was thinking about how there are so many pairs of relatives in this story who are polar opposites. Miss Bingley and Mr. Bingley, Jane & Elizabeth and Lydia & Kitty, Lady Catherine and Mr. Darcy. On one side, Austen gives us characters who have sense and are genuinely decent people, and on the other, there are the characters that I can't help but despise. I think, among other things, this book made me appreciate the fact that the people out there today like Mrs. Bennet or Miss Bingely or Lady Catherine are very few and far between. Since this is my last blog and I assume most of you have finished the book by now, I have to say that I really loved the way the book ended, drawing everything together and then telling the readers what happened to all of the characters. I thought the last chapter was appropriate in this case to show which of the characters grew over the course of the novel and which characters didn't.

2004-03-02T18:37:00.001-05:00

Yay I finished...but I hate that feeling when you get to the end of a good book and you're like allright ::sigh:: the end, but you hate for it to end because it's a good book...but yes so anyways I'm all done. I agree with Allen in the hating Miss Bingley and Lady Catherine...Miss Bingley more so than Lady Catherine. She was all about what she wanted, not anybody else, which made her very hypocritical and unstable as a "friend" to Jane. I'm glad that Jane eventually gave her up, even though it took her long enough. Lady Catherine was also most interested in herself (and her daughter) and was very condescending, but at least she told Elizabeth what she thought about the marriage. Miss Bingley just completely dropped Jane because she "wasn't good enough" for her brother. The end made me really happy that Elizabeth and Darcy finally finally finally got together--but I wish that Mrs. Bennet had realized how aggravating she was. She made me embarrassed for Elizabeth and Jane.

2004-03-02T18:37:00.000-05:00

2004-03-02T05:13:00.000-05:00

I definitely agree with Christin about Austen's style, although I think a large part of that extends to her descriptions of characters, and how well she portrays them through narration. The characters themselves have really made impressions on me, and not just for the way Austen describes them. Maybe I'm just not used to reading about the Victorian age, but several of the characters really stand out to me as interesting and unique: Elizabeth, Darcy, and Mr. Bennet. Mrs. Bennet stands out as annoying, but she's much more of a flat character, and much more of a stereotype, the sort of character I feel like I've seen before.

2004-03-01T23:59:00.000-05:00

Ok, so yes Elizabeth as we talked about before is the most enjoyable character because of her similarities to the everyday female in the present society. Mrs. Bennet is still crazy and wants to marry off her daughters at all costs.. basically shes incorrigable. but she's not supposed to change anyways, Elizabeth is. Darcy, isn't all that bad. as you all reach near the end of the novel, you'll hear the justifications for his actions. (not to spoil anything) Did anyone absolutely not like Miss Bingley and Lady Catherine de Bourgh? They were absolutely worse than Darcy. i mean c'mon those jealous and dispicable women. They're like the stepsisters in Cinderella or something. i guess they were still necessary because they pose another obstacle for Elizabeth to overcome.

2004-03-01T22:41:00.000-05:00

I'm still having a really hard time liking Darcy's character. I'm not finished yet either, Kat. I'm hoping I'll learn to like him a lot more by the time he and Elizabeth get together, but, as of now, he's not my favorite person. He's just still so proud and arrogant, and it just drives me up a wall. Sometimes, I just want to slap him, and tell him to stop acting like such a pretentious jerk. He's not as awful as he was in the beginning of the novel, but he's still not a knight in shining armor, by any means. With luck, he'll keep getting better, and I'll like him by the time I get to the end of the novel. I'd hate to end the book with Lizzy marrying a man who I cannot stand. It would totally ruin the book for me, and so far, I really am enjoying it.

2004-03-01T22:13:00.000-05:00

Going back to what Christin said about women of this era, I think that the main protagonist of this lack of women's rights, so to speak, is Mrs. Bennet. Her main goal in life is to marry her daughters, which is sad and pitiful. She expects no rights for herself, except to get what she wants in terms of getting her daughters married. Her conduct regarding the whole Lydia/Wickham affair is horrible and makes me realize how much I really dislike her. She had no shame for what Lydia did (even though it was obvivously completely unacceptable at the time), and was overjoyed at the fact that she was getting married--and at the perfect marrying age of 16! How wonderful....I am not quite done with the book yet (unlike apparently everyone else on this blog), but I really can't wait for Darcy and Elizabeth to get together. They've been going back and forth for long enough now, and I'm really counting on this whole Lydia affair to be the impetus of another Elizabeth/Darcy meeting so that will work out. Otherwise, I don't really know what its point in the book is. But despite that, which makes it sound like I hate this book, I am actually thoroughly enjoying it. I even took it to work tonight and read it at work, which is completely not allowed...such a rebel.

2004-03-01T21:30:00.000-05:00

In response to the people who found Jane to be dull or less interesting than Elizabeth, I would definitely agree with that. I found myself much more interested in Elizabeth than Jane, as well as by far more interested in Elizabeth's romance with Darcy over Jane's with Bingley. I certainly didn't dislike Jane (especially in comparison to the rest of the Bennet sisters), but she didn't catch my attention either. Elizabeth's story had conflict and, therefore, became more engaging to me. Elizabeth and Darcy's love story was the central one of the novel, while the other stories paled in comparison. Lydia and Wickham's short-lived time in the spotlight was tainted by the sudden crisis their departure together drew up for the rest of the Bennet family, and it faded in my mind relatively quickly as the focus was never completley on Lydia and Wickham. It served more as an impetus for Elizabeth and Darcy. On the contrary, Jane and Bingley's love story lasts the duration of the novel, a relatively constant presence, but I can't say that I honestly remember much from their interactions, whereas I remember more details from the story of Elizabeth and Darcy.

2004-03-01T18:40:00.000-05:00

Of course after how everyone else has said that they love Elizabeth so much I've got to say it too for fear that if I don't, I might get physically attacked (just kidding!). But I really do love Lizzy and think she is a wonderful character. I think that she has the perfect balance of pride and optimism to make her very likeable, but Austen let her be prejudice enough to be human. Truly, I believe that she is the perfect character but not the perfect person or else we all might hate her. In order for Austen to make her a likeable and lovable character, she had to do something out of the ordinary and be human at the same time. I enjoyed Austen's characterization in this book all around but especially with Elizabeth. I really didn't take issue with the fact that the other girls in the book (and in that time in history) were marrying to secure their future, but it did cause me to admire Elizabeth that much more for not going with the status quo. Jane, as someone mentioned earlier, was a little too optimistic for my liking and was a little on the passive side. Lydia, on the other extreme, was too rash and inconsiderate of how she might tarnish the family name and hurt her sisters' chances of marrying wealthy (if that's what they wanted to do) by running off with Wickham. Well it's been fun but I must sign off now!

2004-03-01T18:19:00.000-05:00

I agree with everyone that says that they like Elizabeth. I like the fact that she is witty, and can say what is on her mind. Many women during that time period would not choose to say whatever they felt because they were supposed to be more "lady-like," but she is a character that many women can look up to. Even though her boldness sometimes gets in the way, and causes her to make certain judgments about people, her intelligence and virtue allow her to overcome some of the prejudices that come along with her judgments can not really relate to Jane's character because she seems to be the one that is "perfect" all of the time.

2004-03-01T18:16:00.000-05:00

Okay it has taken me a while to write another blog, but i wanted to finish the book, and then talk about it. But since this thing is due soon, i need to astart bloging! Anyway, i really enjoy the characters in this book especially Mrs. Bennet, I know that everyone was talking about how great Elizabeth was (which she is) but the mother still cracks me up everytime she opens her mouth. Mrs. Bennet seems as if she doesn't really care what others may think about her, but when she makes up her mind to do something, that;s what she does. I kind of have to like her because she is not so selfish as if concerned with only herself, but she cares a great deal about her daughters and wants to make sure that they have well off husbands to marry. I know sometimes people say that i'm old-timey but i wish that when i get a little older that i can meet a well off man and get married too, (nothing wrong with being pampered right)? Naw, just playing, but Mrs. Bennet's role in the book is very intersting and makes the book interesting as well because when you see how determined she is to get her daughters married, starting with the oldest, i can just see her planning out each child's destiny one by one until finally she gets to the youngest, and then after that, she'll probably start working on the grandkids. But naw, Lizzy is an excellent character too, and even from the beginning of the book, she gave you the impression that she was going to have a lot to say. I originally though that it was going to be all about Jane, since she is the oldest, but she seemd a little boring!

2004-03-01T16:57:00.000-05:00

I love some of the characterization in this novel. I really think that Elizabeth is the character most girls can relate to. She's the most normal and sane one of the bunch. Her other sisters are alright, Jane's pretty cool, but Lizzy is the star. She's the one that reminds me of myself, the one that I can relate to, the one that I sympathize with the most. Jane comes in second, with the other sisters tied for last place. I think that Austen was brilliant in her characterization of Lizzy. She made her strong-willed, yet polite at the same time, which I think is great. It shows that a woman can get what she wants without being a pain about it. Jane is a great character, but I think she's perhaps just a little too sweet for the average person to be able to relate to. Lizzy is just so much more real. And the characterization of Mr. and Mrs. Bennet is perfect...I think Austen fully intended for readers to hate Mrs. Bennet, and, if so, she succeeded! And he is just such a balance to her insanity, it really cracks me up. Anyway, that's all for now...

2004-03-01T11:04:00.000-05:00

I'd like to respond to what Christin said about the lack of feminism in the book, and the lack of assertive women. A big part of that seems to be due to the actual personalities of the major female characters, rather than the fact that they're women. I mean, Mrs. Bennet and Lydia are annoying, ditzy people, and I don't think this is because they're conforming to the gender roles of the time (although they do), but rather because they're just annoying and stupid. If they were men, their stupidity might take slightly different forms based on gender roles, but they'd be just as stupid. The same goes for Jane. She's passive, and willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and not nearly as assertive as she has right to be. Certainly it's easier for her to do this since society lays out a passive role for women, but I think it's mostly just her personality. I mean, Bingley does basically the same thing- lets other people push him around all the time, doesn't take a stand for what he wants.

2004-02-29T23:55:00.000-05:00

Of course Elizabeth has to be THE ONE. and i'm not talking Jet Li here, she's the protagonist in the story and must exhibit a certain rebelliousness to traditional views. She chooses a road less traveled and perhaps she has the most sense and is the most sensible, so she should be the main character in Sense & Sensibility, which i have no idea what it is about, but i'm assuming its something similar. So ol' Elizabeth here is a genuine character who must express rather noncomforming actions and ideas that breach the boundaries of the time period. Hence a woman speaks up and does it her way. I just watched Bridget Jones' Diary after remembering that Christin had related the story to the novel, and it drew a better picture of what Elizabeth went through in my mind. Yes, so Elizabeth is nice, but there has to be some approval for Darcy. ok so, yeah he's a big pain, but he really only has good intentions for Elizabeth after realizing how much of a pain he was. Often misunderstood, and says the wrong things at the wrong times that gives readers the impression that he is a arrogant and terrible man. Though this is Austen's intention, he turns out to be a good man. At least in bridget jones it was evident. i have come to realize the impact of the story and its contribution in today's world. It's all about changes.

2004-02-29T23:46:00.000-05:00

I think one of the things that makes Elizabeth as likeable as we've noticed is because of the fact that, while she's the most sensible of all the novel's characters, she also does have flaws, and Austen writes her character so that the audience is able to see that Elizabeth isn't some fantasy, fairy-tale princess (I have nothing against that either, but in this setting I think that wouldn't make much sense). After Elizabeth, I'd have to say that Darcy is probably my second favorite character. He's probably the most like her of all the others - he makes a quick judgment of Elizabeth much the same way that she does of him, and then proves through his actions that he isn't originally what he seemed. He helps smooth of the Lydia fiasco, and he was honest in his dealings with Wickham while Wickham was not. I can't really say why I enjoyed this book, even though I didn't care for many of the characters. I liked Austen's writing style, and I pretty much read it in one sitting (give or take a little), which made it a lot easier for me to take in. I also liked the contrast in characters and how the five sisters were relatively balanced (there was Mary, who was almost inconsequential, then Kitty and Lydia who were balanced out by Jane and Elizabeth). That's all for now, I suppose

2004-02-29T23:09:00.000-05:00

I've had a hard time reading this book, mainly because I don't like the way Austen presents the story. It's a very casual presentation of every day life during this time period--there's nothing extraordinarily profound in my opinion. A lot of my opinions have to do with the position of women at the time, which I think is really horrible. It's really annoying how women are so inferior, and their only future, their only means of success, lies in who they marry. I hate that women had to rely on men for success, and not just that fact, but that that mindset was accepted and common. I don't think this book really changed the face of literature when it was published, because it really just recounted their average way of life. Today, we can appreciate the novel because we can see the different perspectives of a culture many years ago and compare it to our own; outside of that, it's really just a romance story. Some people may enjoy that, but I just didn't get really into it. The only characer I really liked was Elizabeth, as many of you have mentioned, mainly because she was the only bearable one. She stuck to her guns, and stayed true to herself. When she had the opportunity to get married, she chose to sacrifice her potential social status for a chance at true love, and I respect her for that.

2004-02-29T22:59:00.000-05:00

Mr. Bennet has been appearing in a more interesting light lately in my reading. After Elizabeth received Darcy's letter and realized that her father would do nothing to make her mother and younger sisters behave better, my opinion of him was considerably lowered. However, not long after that, as Lydia prepares to go to Brighton and Elizabeth tries to enlist her father's help in stopping Lydia, Mr. Bennet said something that changed my mind again: "Lydia will never be at ease until she has exposed herself in some public place or other, and we can never expect her to do it with so little expense or inconvenience to her family as under the present circumstances." This made me think that perhaps there is more design and wisdom in his parenting strategy than I had previously thought. Maybe he's just rationalizing the fact that he's too tired and disinterested to play an active role in steering his daughters' course, but I think there's at least a grain of truth in his statement about Lydia.

2004-02-29T22:02:00.000-05:00

Elizabeth is an excellent character. She is obviously the most developed character in the book, and the one the reader comes to know the best. She is also a very likable character--I don't think anyone has posted and said oh I hate Elizabeth...which is why I think it is interesting that even though she is the most sensible and reliable and likable, she still exhibits pride and prejudices, as the book's title conveys. She obviously has pride in herself, and even in her family, or at least in Jane. She is easily prejudiced against Darcy by Wickham, even though she has no real reason to believe what Wickham says over what Darcy says except that she just doesn't like Darcy. But as the book progresses, she comes to lose some of her pride and prejudice, which is one thing that may make her so likable. With Darcy's letter and her mother and sisters' actions, she comes to realize that her family maybe isn't the best one on the block. Darcy's letter and subsequent actions also make her lose some of her prejudice against him. So I think that maybe the book isn't only called Pride and Prejudice because those issues exist and were prevalent at the time, but also maybe because they are things that can be overcome.

2004-02-29T11:03:00.000-05:00

I agree about Elizabeth, and I think that's a major reason why she is such a powerful contrast to many of the other characters. Because she is the most sensible, she is able to make her own decisions and judgements, and not just accept those of others. Or maybe she is sensible because she relies on herself. I'm not sure which of those characteristics leads to the other, but they are definitely linked, and they make Elizabeth by far the strongest character in the book. Jane also trusts herself, but almost to an extreme. She doesn't listen when people tell her anything that might make her think badly of someone, even if it's true. That's why I liked her less than Elizabeth, because I felt like she was too optimistic and too friendly towards everyone. I mean, I'm all about optimism, but I'm also all about being realistic, and I think that many times, Jane wasn't. But she did eventually accept the truth about Mr. Bingley's sisters, which was good. It just took her a lot longer than Elizabeth to realize and believe it. In the end, I found myself liking Jane mostly because Elizabeth loved her and trusted her so much, and I trusted Elizabeth's views. I guess the characters influence not just each other, but the reader as well.

2004-02-29T10:49:00.000-05:00

I never thought that Mr. Bennet was a very interesting character during the book, although I rarely understood his actions. After I finished the book, I could look at his character as a summary of all the actions he had taken. I think that overall, Mr. Bennet would rather step back from the world than participate in it. The poor guy is living with his wife, ugh, and all of his daughters, and Elizabeth is the only one with intelligence enough for him to relate to her. His detachment sometimes has severe consequances; for example, when Mr. Bennet returns home and Mr. Gardiner is left with the responsibility of finding Lydia. At a critical time, he failed his family. I think that with more intelligent people in his everyday life, he would accomplish more and have a better attitude.

2004-02-28T23:16:00.000-05:00

i agree, characters seem to be swayed in a direction of others and are influenced by certain impressions. however, the main Bennet daughter, Elizabeth faces many situations in which she must act upon herself to make the right decisions in deciding the character of certain people. Wickham, for example, held a steady and convincing persona towards Elizabeth and she trusted in his judgement about Darcy, but that eventually got turned around through Darcy's version of the story. Ranging from this account to Miss Bingley's persistent lies to Lady Catherine de Bourgh's disgust in her. I guess thats what the whole story is about, her personal decisions about matters and people. So much is put in front of her and she has to push herself to overcome opposing forces and realize how much of a counterpart she is to Darcy. Now concerning Mr. Bennet, i think his sarcastic humor towards his wife's craziness and his opposition to Mrs. Bennet's statements (the marriage proposal between Elizabeth and Mr. Collins) keeps me interested in reading the book. His judgement is quite similar to Elizabeth because they are both wise in all their decisions, but differs because he rarely cares about a thing. I find nothing in the character of Mary to be honest because she seems so insignificant. Lydia's running off with Wickham could have potentially hurt the family's reputation since Wickham(always seeking money) is vile and short of money. Lydia seems to be the most uncivil of the entire Bennet family and her relationship with Wickham seems to pose danger to the family because of status and the fact that they weren't married. Elizabeth's reaction to the Jane's letters is ironic because she is the one overcoming the issue of class distinction in her and Darcy.

2004-02-28T22:31:00.000-05:00

That's true that Mary seems like she could be easily swayed by any of her sisters. I think a lot of the characters in this book are easily influenced by other people. Mr. Bingley does whatever Mr. Darcy says, even to the point of ending his relationship with Jane (at least for a while). Kitty certainly follows Lydia around wherever she goes, and does whatever she says. And although Lydia doesn't let anyone tell her what to do, she's basically a younger and almost more obnoxious version of her mother, so she isn't exactly her own person either. Anyone could probably get Mrs. Bennet to do anything, as long as they could convince her that it would help her social status or get one of her daughters married. Elizabeth and Jane are even pretty good at getting their father to do what they want, although they are definitely the only ones he'll listen to. I think it would be very good for a lot of these characters if they made more of their own decisions instead of letting other people do it for them. Kitty became a lot more bearable after Lydia left home. I guess sometimes it's not always a bad thing though. Even if Mr. Darcy was wrong about Jane's feelings, he is a good person to trust in general. And I would definitely take Elizabeth's advice about a lot things. I guess it just depends, sometimes it can be good, in moderation, and other times not so much. But letting someone else decide everything for you, to the point that they are creating who you are, is never a good thing.

2004-02-28T22:27:00.000-05:00

In the very second chapter of the novel, Mary is introduced as lacking a certain amount of intelligence. It seems to me as though she reads to cover up for the fact that she cannot add anything to a converstaion. Austen writes "Mary wished to say something very intelligent, but knew not how." I think that Mary lacks the ability to express herself, and so she creates a facade with her reading and withdraws within herself. She takes great pride in being mentioned at the ball as the "most accomplished girl in the neighbourhood" and yet she is not an essential part of any of the novel's activities, which struck me as odd. If she were really as accomplished as it was spoken of her, wouldn't she have been a more crucial character? I think that Austen may have included Mary as another example of a character that is using a cover, much like Mrs. Bennet and the younger girls search for social status instead of real relationships. Mary is proud of being referred to as accomplished; however, she cannot reach beyond that for something more. In the end, she remains at home and, although she does not resist when she is compelled to interact more with other people, it is a change that is not of her own choosing, indicating that the character does not really grow as much as some of the others have over the course of the novel.

2004-02-27T21:33:00.000-05:00

I think that maybe Mary is a character that Austen created so that the reader would be left wondering how she turns out in the end. Will her two older sisters influence her in marriage or will it be her mother and younger sisters who convince her to marry solely for socioeconomic purposes? I'm not saying that Mary can't make decisions for herself, but Austen doesn't give us very many details on her personality. My overall impression of Mary was that she was the quiet type who had a good head on her shoulders but was likely to be swayed by her sisters. I agree that First Impressions would have been a really good title, too, but I'm still having trouble deciding whether I like it better than P&P. I can definitely see that especially with Mr. Darcy first impressions played a huge role in determining whose company he found pleasant and who liked him in return. Obviously no one from the Benett household had a great first impression of him until his situation was explained. I guess now that I've thought it out First Impressions wouldn't have been as good a title as P&P. Although it definitely covers the prejudice part of the story as Riley mentioned earlier, pride is still a crucial part of the novel as we all have discussed.

2004-02-27T19:38:00.000-05:00

I'm still pondering the questions that Riley brought up, and I can't seem to get many concrete ideas down. My first thoughts are that there is something genuinely different about the characters of Elizabeth and Jane in comparison to those of Lydia and Kitty. I think I see Lydia as more like her mother than Kitty is, because Kitty becomes more sensible following Lydia's departure while Lydia's letter to Elizabeth at the end of the novel suggests that she is still looking to gain higher social status. Mary seems to be an entity unto herself, quiet and bookish, she provides a stark contrast to the characters of Lydia and Kitty. Although I'm definitely in agreement that Mary cannot be considered sensible, as Elizabeth and Jane are. I guess I kind of see Elizabeth and Jane as taking their sense from their father, but Mr. Bennet's general failures as a parent probably contribute to the fact that Mary, the middle sister, is more withdrawn while Kitty and Lydia are prone to the antics of Mrs. Bennet. I don't really know; just some suggestions. I still can't seem to figure out the specific purpose of including Mary, but I'm working on it.

2004-02-26T19:38:00.000-05:00

sorry i posted twice...didn't mean to :( i really am done now

2004-02-26T19:02:00.000-05:00

One thing I was thinking about as I read this book is why the five Bennet sisters are so different. They all grew up with the same parents in the same environment and way of life, so how did Elizabeth and Jane turn out to be so much more sensible than Lydia and Kitty? Or is it just because they are old? It does say that Kitty gets better and not quite so boy/clothes obsessed when she isn't around Lydia as much. Would Lydia have gotten to be less like her mother also, if she had not married Wickham at such a young age? And did Jane and Elizabeth used to be like that? I doubt it somehow. And Mary seems very different from any of the rest of them, although Austen tell us less about her than the others. She certainly isn't worried about soldiers and marriage and the latest gossip, but I don't know that I would call her sensible, or nearly as likable as Elizabeth and Jane. I guess that might be because Austen just doesn't spend as much time developing her character. Also I wonder why that's the case? Mary must be in the book for a reason, even if she isn't a major character. Anyone have any ideas what Austen's purpose was for including Mary?

2004-02-25T17:17:00.000-05:00

In response to what Madison said about the original title of the book...I almost think that I like "First Impressions" better than "Pride and Prejudice." First Impressions is much broader and refer to almost anything in the book: how our first impressions are misleading (Mr. Darcy, Mr. Wickham, etc.) or exactly correct (Mrs. Bennet, Lydia, etc.). But the title Austen ended up choosing seems to infer that pride and prejudice are the most important things in the book. Maybe she did intend for them to be, but I think there are many other aspects of the characters that are just as important to explore. I don't think that love, loyalty, trustworthiness, friendship, and many other traits are less vital to the story and the characters than pride and prejudice. Maybe I'm wrong. But that's my opinion. And I don't really think that First Impressions would have necessarily given anything away, because like I said before, some of my first impressions turned out to be right. So, even if I had inferred from the title that I would be wrong about some of the characters at first, I wouldn't know which ones, and I don't think it would spoil anything. Anyway, it's interesting to think about Austen choosing between the titles, and I wonder why she ended up choosing Pride and Prejudice?

2004-02-25T16:31:00.000-05:00

Okay, first impressions. We always say you only get one chance to make a good impression, yadda yadda, but it's interesting how things really turn out in P&P. In the beginning, all the ladies are more interested in Bingley because he's the good, nice one with all the money, but Darcy turns out to be Elizabeth's catch instead. At first meeting, Darcy really isn't all that into Elizabeth, but of course things take a totally different road in their future. And what about the Bingley sisters? In their cases, their first impressions might be the better ones. They were only semi-snotty in the beginning, but then they kicked it up a notch with their phony personas. Maybe Austen is trying to say that first impressions aren't always accurate. People put on facades (I know I've done it before) to impress, especially when meeting someone you've never met before. You never really know who a person truly is until you spend time with them in their everyday routine. Initially, a new student @ school may come off as an idiot with a brash personality, but who are we to say what that individual's situation is? How do we know what's going on with them if we don't know anything about them? How can we pass judgment on a stranger? That's simply not our right, and I think in our society, we're way too comfortable believing that "everybody has prejudices" mumbo-jumbo we like to feed each other. Just because everybody does it really doesn't make it right. I think Austen, in a roundabout way, is really pointing to all of us to look at the way we perceive each other and to make some positive changes in our attitudes.

2004-02-25T16:16:00.000-05:00

Hmm...I need to blog one last time...and I'm trying to think of what I should offer... *thumb twiddling*..Okay, first impressions. We always say you only get one chance to make a good impression, yadda yadda, but it's interesting how things really turn out in P&P. In the beginning, all the ladies are more interested in Bingley because he's the good, nice one with all the money, but Darcy turns out to be Elizabeth's catch instead. At first meeting, Darcy really isn't all that into Elizabeth, but of course things take a totally different road in their future. And what about the Bingley sisters? In their cases, their first impressions might be the better ones. They were only semi-snotty in the beginning, but then they kicked it up a notch with their deceptive trickery and phony personas...why can't people just be normal?

2004-02-25T12:45:00.000-05:00

I finally made it here. I'm not too sure what I can really add without fear of spoiling the end of the book for everyone who hasn't finished it, but I'll try my best. I liked Madison's point about the books original title of "First Impressions" and I wanted to take it just a little bit further to relate that to the actual title that Jane Austen chose. As far as the level of the characters' first impressions of each other, their initial judgments of each other become the basis of the prejudices that they hold for a large part of the novel. Elizabeth first finds Darcy to seem haughty, and her dislike is then apparent in her interactions with him. She does not allow herself to see his good qualities until they manifest themselves in other ways - for example, the truth about Wickham and Darcy's aide in Lydia's predicament. Like Jill said, his involvement with Bingley and Jane was innocent and unintentional, and as the audience, we come to see that Darcy really is an upright and honest man although it takes Elizabeth a longer time to see that herself. This is all because of her own pride that refuses to admit that her original impression of Darcy could be wrong, and so she cannot see the damage her own prejudices are causing herself and her chance at a marriage that would be for love and happiness, not solely for socioeconomic status as are her mother's wishes. It is only once she puts aside her pride that she can see that Darcy's personality would be a good match for her own. As a closing point that isn't particularly related, I seem to share everyone else's extreme dislike for the fickle, empty character of Mrs. Bennett.

2004-02-25T12:28:00.000-05:00

I think that while Madision has brought up a very good topic of first impressions, many of us, myself included, have already expressed our first impressions of the characters. Therefore I'm going to move on to characters' first impressions of each other, which could prove to be a more difficult endeavor. Originally, I think Elizabeth just thought Darcy to be a snob and not at all concerned with Elizabeth or her family. His attention was only directed toward Miss Bingley during their first meeting, which made her believe that he had absolutely no interest in a girl of her class. She continued to regard him as such a person for quite awhile until he was openly unkind towards her. For majority of the first part of the story Elizabeth was indifferent towards Darcy because she figured that the feelings between them were mutual.

2004-02-25T09:11:00.000-05:00

That was supposed to be "Big Brother" not "Bi Brother!"

2004-02-25T09:10:00.000-05:00

Bi Brother here. These comments say it all--you all are doing better than expected with this stuff--I am assuming it is all you(no cliffys) and I love it.

2004-02-25T08:58:00.000-05:00

So, I'm running out of things to blog about, but I still have to blog two more times, so here we go. Also in my research (that's what I blogged about last time) I've found that the original title to Pride and Prejudice was "First Impressions," which I think works well for the book, but I also think it kind of gives away what Kat was talking about (about Darcy) ... how we think poorly of him at the beginning of the book, but by the end our thoughts are different (I'm not saying too much because I know some people havn't finished the book). Something that I think is interesting is how "First Impressions" would have worked on two levels: the first being our first impressions of the characters, and the second being the character's first impressions of each other. So, that's all for this time I guess.

2004-02-24T22:01:00.000-05:00

While I have not finished the book and it appears Jill has, I want to give her kudos for her Mr. Darcy comments. Everyone else seems to think that Jane Austen is implying throughout the book that Darcy is a bad person, but I really think it is just the opposite. I think that Wickham sounds trite and whiny in his comments about Darcy, while I have not read so far as to hear Darcy's side of the story. I think that Jane Austen is keeping that from us for a while to lead us into believing that Darcy is bad, only so she can throw a twist in with Darcy's "revelations" as Jill called them. There is something underlying in Darcy's actions that I cannot really name with a specific example, but they make me really anticipate Darcy's revelations so I can know that he is okay, and not just think that. Furthermore, I think it would be great for only Elizabeth to hear Darcy's revelations and recognize that he is a good guy, but Mrs. Bennet not hear all this and still hate him. Then she would have a cow should they get engaged or whatever and that would make me laugh.

2004-02-24T21:31:00.000-05:00

First of all I must agree that Mr. Bennet is not nearly as annoying as his wife (although I did express my dislike of his character previously and still do stand by it), which does create an interesting pair trying to raise five girls. Their viewpoints are quite opposite on a number of subjects, the main one being the marriage of their daughters. Even though Mr. Bennet wants very much for his daughters to marry someone who can provide for them financially, he isn't at all as eager to marry them off and brag about their potential engagements with local rich boys. Mrs. Bennet is much too presumptuous for my liking (or for most anyone's liking in this group, it seems). I, for one, have not read Bridget Jones' Diary but after this discussion am encouraged to, seeing I liked P&P so much. At first I really disliked Darcy and was in favor of Elizabeth's continued relationship with Wickham. But once Darcy made several huge revelations to Elizabeth, my opinions of the two completely switched even though Elizabeth wasn't completely convinced of Darcy's moral uprightness. In my mind what he said to Bingley about Jane was innocently wrong and didn't have malicious intent. In my opinion this action was pardonable and didn't mask his other good character traits.

2004-02-24T00:04:00.000-05:00

i must side with all your opinions! although it may seem repetitive, i truly believe mrs. bennet to be coocoo for cocopuffs! or rather coo coo. i still believe she needs to chill and stop "forcing" Jane to get married. and leaving her to suffer an illness just so she can get closer to bingley is pretty whack. i liked the comments from Benae, "my daughter does this, my daughter does that". let me tell ya, this is how all asian parents are with their children. and those with the most successful children "mai child go to hah-vahd!" yeah that really really annoys me. my parents have always also been around to make sure that i get whats best for me whether i like it or not.. similarly to Mr. bennet's fine character. i only seen parts of the Bridget Jone's Diary, the movie, so maybe that'll help me grasp a better picture of pride and prejudice and it's dynamic characters. I sorta agree with Kat that Darcy isn't so bad, but the author really made it seem that he was a real pain. Lizzy and Mr. Collins.. sigh.. Mrs. Bennet needs a drink. go on a cruise and let life be... i need to read faster...

2004-02-23T22:47:00.001-05:00

I really can't stand Mrs. Bennet! She just drives me up a wall. Ever since the beginning of the book when she urged Jane to venture to Mr. Bingley's house on horseback to get stranded there during the storm, I have hated her character. It bugged me so much how she saw Jane illness merely as an opportunity to grow closer to Bingley, and didn't worry at all about Jane. I was also really angry when she tried to force Lizzy to marry Mr. Collins. His character is just so dull...I definitely couldn't blame Lizzy for not wanting to marry him. I think my favorite scene in the book thus far was when Mrs. Bennet drug Lizzy into Mr. Bennet's office and told him that she'd refused Mr. Collins, and he was like "I'll disown her if she does marry him!" (that's not the exact quote...) It cracked me up! In general, I really like his character (except at the beginning of the book, when he talked about how Lizzy was his favorite child, because that bothered me). Granted, he's not the best father in the world, but he's a lot better of a parent than his wife.

2004-02-23T22:47:00.000-05:00

I completely agree with people's comments on Mr. Bennet and Elizabeth. Mr. Bennet cracks me up because he is so chill about everything, and provides such a contrast with Mrs. Bennet--I think that this is evident in their kids too, which an interesting commendation Jane Austen's character development. Elizabeth is pretty relaxed about the whole marraige thing like her father, while the younger sisters seem more high-strung and obsessive about petty things like Mrs. Bennet. Jane is very kind and has a good head on her shoulders like her dad, but she obviously does care more about the social practice of marriage than Elizabeth or her father. And I know that everyone else here hates Darcy, and maybe I just haven't gotten to the really horrible part of his character in the book, but I really think he's okay...I just get this sense that he turns out good in the end. That's probably a complete misinterpretation and in the end he turns out to be the devil or something, but for some reason I like him right now. I really hate Bingley's sisters. They are selfish, they use people, and they just seem completely horrible in general. I definitely think that Elizabeth tagged them right away. Oh yeah--I remember that I really like Bridget Jones's Diary, and I am thoroughly enjoying this book thus far, and I can see some parallels between characters and plot, etc...but I can't remember how Bridget Jones's Diary ended, so I guess I will have to keep reading. :)

2004-02-23T22:32:00.000-05:00

Following what Benae said, Mr. Bennet reminds me of my mom. She is very laidback and it's great that way, but at the same time I know she's checking up on me (literally). Anyway, since it's been a while I'm going to write about two new characters I've encountered. Starting with Mr. Collins. Man, what a loser. He is such a buttkiss in regards to Lady Catherine. He's got pride that isn't really justified(in my opinion). He's next in line to Mr. Bennet's estate, and he's kind of trying to downplay that while really allowing it to make him feel important. Like Lizzy says, "There is something very pompous in his style. And what can he mean by apologizing for being next in the entail?" The best despcription of him comes from Chapter 15. It describes Collins as being a "mixture of pride and obequiousness, self-importance, and humility." Next, is Wickham. Well, at the beginning I thought he was okay. But i personally like Darcy, so it was unacceptable for her to like Wickham. So imagine my relief when we learned the truth about Wickham (I won't give it away though). Well, that's all i got for now.

2004-02-23T21:11:00.000-05:00

Good the book has gotten to ya. Watch the language all. Love everyone's discussion! I This group is setting a new standard.

2004-02-23T20:44:00.000-05:00

As far as Mr. Bennet goes, I enjoy him. In his own little way, he shows affection and care for his daughters. LOL...his character makes me smile. He reminds me a lot of my own dad, who likes to pretend he doesn't care about what I do with myself but deep on the inside he has his concerns. His attitude is great!--he's always like, "whatever...leave me alone". That, I can identify with, seeing as how that is my own life philosophy. The way he ignores his wife and brushes off her irritating comments amuse me. If I were in their household, I'd probably say the same snappy things to Mrs. Bennet except maybe not as nicely. Mrs. Bennet, as Allen said earlier in the blog, should just calm her happy behind down and quit worrying about marrying her daughters. I know that Victorian Age women were quite preoccupied with getting married, especially to a man of material wealth, but Mrs. Bennet's one-dimensionality (is that a word?) frustrates me! If she were a real person, I'd wanna slap her and force her to create her own personality without trying to live vicariously through the marriages of her daughters. She's the nosy, braggy mom that everyone in the PTA hates: "my daughter does this, my daughter does that" except really, as all the snotty people like to remind the Bennets, her kids aren't as high falutin' as she wishes they were. She pisses me off.

2004-02-23T18:42:00.000-05:00

I've started my biography of Jane Austen that we have to do for this project, and I've learned that she (I'll call her Austen from here on to avoid confusion with the character Jane in the book) never married, and we can all see that her book comments on the strict class structure and gender roles that middle and upper classes people faced. I think that Elizabeth in Pride and Prejudice is intelligent and quick-witted, and she doesn't want to prescribe so easily to these strict ideas. She wants to marry for love, putting aside money and class. So, anyway, I guess my idea is that Austen based Elizabeth's character loosely on her own. Elizabeth's speech is refined, as is Austen's writing.

2004-02-23T15:00:00.000-05:00

Bridget Jones' mother is unmistakably based on the character of Mrs. Bennet. She's always pushing her to attend parties, especially well-to-do ones, even though it drives Bridget crazy. She was also the one who first saw the possible connection with Mark Darcy, which turned Bridget away, mostly because it was another one of her mother's crazy ideas. I remember feeling pity for Bridget's father when Bridget's mother runs off with another man, and I feel some of that same sympathy concerning Mr. Bennet. It is rather unfortunate to have five daughers, all of them unmarried, when all you need is a male to inherit your property. Like Bridget's father, he seems to go along with Mrs. Bennet in her ramblings, making her think she makes sense but really he pretty much ignores her. He changes some when Lydia gets married on a whim; I think he realizes that he hasn't been the best parent in the world. What does everyone else think about Mr. and Mrs. Bennet?

2004-02-22T22:24:00.000-05:00

Bridget Jones' Diary is one of my favorite books, and it's really the reason why I chose to read this book, because I had heard that it was loosely based on Pride and Prejudice. I didn't like Darcy in Bridget Jones' Diary, and I don't like him yet in this book either. I really love Bridget and Elizabeth though. Although, in the beginning of Bridget Jones' Diary, Bridget is doing whatever she can to get a man (likely inspired by her mother's persistence), but at some point, she abondons all of this. She turns more toward Elizabeth's method of "take me or leave me." I also really see the parallels between Bridget's mom and Mrs. Bennet, and I hate them both...they just get on my nerves so much, but I'll save my Mrs. Bennet rant for later. Anyway, I really like this book so far, and I can't wait to see what'll happen next!

2004-02-22T20:58:00.000-05:00

I've read Bridget Jones's Diary before, and I just looked at some of the reviews for the movie, and apparently, it is loosely based on P&P. I guess it is kind of similar, with both of the heroines on a quest to find husbands. Isn't Bridget's mom kind of like Mrs. Bennet and always trying to set her up with somebody in hopes that she gets married? I can't remember b/c I read the book so long ago, but I think so. She's always trying to force her to go to some party or out on a date with some new guy who might like her and Bridget just wants to do her own thing. Bridget Jones is more open to revamping her whole life and persona though to find a man. She goes on diets and does all this dramatic stuff to attract a guy. Elizabeth is more like "take me or leave me" and not really concerned with conforming to fit her man's needs, wants, dislikes, etc. Mr. Darcy in Bridget Jones i s very snooty about everything and wants this, that and the other in his relationship with Bridget. Or maybe I'm getting Darcy mixed up with the other guy Bridget starts dating. I can't really remember the movie or the book (Bridget Jones) and the chapters and sisters of P&P are beginning to blur together so I might be wrong on many levels...

2004-02-22T19:10:00.000-05:00

Has anyone read Bridget Jones's Diary? I heard that Helen Fielding was a big fan of Jane Austen and used some of Austen's themes in her book. I think that's what pushed me to read this book in the first place. It makes this book easier to relate with, because Bridget is so easy to relate with. They really are very similar- Bridget Jones is in her 30s, feeling bad that all of her friends are married and she's single. Although Bridget is rather shallow and pathetic, she is often amusing in her entries. The other major character is Mark Darcy, who is almost exactly like Mr. Darcy from P & P. Darcy acts like he hates Bridget from the start, so she automatically dislikes him (sounds like a little prejudice and pride to me). I don't want to spoil the ending, but their relationship ends up developing almost exactly like Elizabeth and Darcy's. I wouldn't go as far to say Bridget Jones's Diary is a 20th/21st century rendition of P & P, but it is fun to relate the two.

2004-02-22T18:24:00.000-05:00

nice work

2004-02-22T16:57:00.000-05:00

Hey everyone, I'm new here because I was originally reading A Tale of Two Cities. This is Ben Lacker, by the way. On the subject of narration, I can easily see how you could think the book as being written from Elizabeth's perspective, at least most of the time. The narrator tends to make brief, insightful, often trenchant comments on the characters, and Elizabeth's prejudice seems to dispose her to make similar sorts of observations. You might say that the narrator and Elizabeth have similar personalities. I'm a little behind you guys in the book, since I switched, so excuse me if any of what I say only pertains to the first half of the novel. I do hope these little comments on the characters by the narrator continue, though, because they are one of my favorite things about Pride and Prejudice.

2004-02-22T10:03:00.000-05:00

Sorry to go off topic, but one thing I've been noticing is that the narrator's perspective is very different from the perspectives we would get from any of the other characters. I often find myself reading and thinking it is from Elizabeth's perspective (which I guess makes some sense, because she is the only voice of reason in the book), but then something will be said about her and I will have to remember that it is from the narrator's perspective. If the novel were from Jane's perspective, I can see it being much more flowery. From Mrs. Bennet's perspective, I think the only thing we would hear about is her intent and joy in marrying off her daughters. I think that Elizabeth could be a good narrator, but I still think it is more interesting to hear the story from an outsider.

2004-02-21T20:40:00.000-05:00

Although I really hadn't thought about Mr. Bennet's character too much, what Riley says about him is completely true. He is a rather nothing character for most of the book, but when it comes to making major decisions, he has the final word even though he hasn't done much otherwise to control of influence the situation. (The reason I'm not elaborating is because I have finished the book and don't want to ruin it for the rest of you who haven't, but hopefully some of you know what I'm referring to). I also realize that in this time period it is typical of the father to always have the final say in any family affair, but he also doesn't do much of anything for most of the book. Moving on from Mr. Bennet, one character I would like to highlight is Lady Catherine deBourgh. She plays a rather peculiar role in the book, but I'm not convinced that it is too deep. I know if I had dinner with a person like her, I'd never want to see that person again. She proves to be a very uppity old woman, who has nothing better to do than to criticize people in lower classes and try to control her nephew so that his money will stay in the family. Personally I believe that she is the embodiment of the title of the book although Austen did not title the book specifically for her.

2004-02-21T20:06:00.000-05:00

While we're on the subject of love and marriage, I'd like to talk about Mr. Bennet. When I first started the book, I liked him and Elizabeth and that was pretty much it. My opinions have changed about many of the characters since then, but Mr. Bennet is the one who I still can't quite figure out how I feel about. For one thing, I wonder why he married Mrs. Bennet in the first place. (I know there is one part in the book that talks about this, and I wish I could remember it more clearly, and I also wish I could find it because maybe it would answer some of my questions...does anyone know where it is?) I mean, he obviously thinks she is stupid and annoying now, sometimes to the point of amusement. I think he is much more sensible than the rest of his family, Elizabeth excluded, but I don't like that he just sits around and watches them all act silly and lets it entertain him. I don't like how he only really loves Elizabeth (and mabye Jane, but still not as much as he should). He takes no interest in the rest of his daughters, or in his wife. If he doesn't like how Mrs. Bennet is raising the girls, then maybe he should help her do it! He should try to teach them some sense, rather than laughing at them as they turn out to be as dumb as their mother. I'm not sure there's much he can do about not liking his wife anymore, because I'm sure that in that time, divorce was unheard of. But I wish I knew why he married her in the first place, it seems like the strangest match in the world. So anyway...I used to like Mr. Bennet because I felt like he was the only character who understood how I felt about most of the other characters, but then I started to almost feel sorry for Mrs. Bennet and the three youngest girls, because their father doesn't care enough to give them any sort of authority figure other than their wealth&popularity-obsessed mother. And I don't care how silly they are, I think Mr. Bennet should care about them.

2004-02-21T13:52:00.000-05:00

Even though the girls in P&P are preoccupied with getting married, the guys are enthusiastic too. When Mr. Collins comes to visit the Bennets, his main priority is to marry Elizabeth. When she rejects him, he really takes it well and keeps on about his business of getting a wifey. Hopefully everybody has read this part...it's kind of hard to blog when we're all at different spots in the book. But anyway, I wonder if this is a realistic depiction of the Victorian man's behavior when it comes to marriage. It's definitely much different than what I would consider the 21st century western man's rebellious attitude toward marriage...but maybe that's just a stereotype.

2004-02-18T19:05:00.000-05:00

The Bennett’s’ obsession of finding a spouse for the daughters is indicative of the time period. In the Victorian ages, women had limited options in terms of accumulating wealth. Basically the only way they could excel in society was to marry a successful man. The book opens up with the quote, “It is a truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune, must be in want of a wife.” I think this typifies the Victorian preoccupation with marriage and social advancement. If a man had everything materialistically, the only major possession that he lacked was a good wife. On the flip side, the woman needs the man for social identification. I think that a modern woman might have difficulties in understanding this concept because of the level of liberation they enjoy. Nowadays, it is commonplace for a female to become successful without the aid of a man. In a sense, the courting of a man in those times is the contemporary equivalent to a woman going to college to secure a good job. These girls were driven to be successful.

2004-02-18T14:30:00.000-05:00

I like the book so far, but the jealousy that some of the characters exhibit annoys me. The mom is an interesting character and I won't say that I don't like her, but if I knew a person like her, I probably wouldn't like them. I suppose it's true that her behavior is a testament to the Victorian era, but I feel like she should have something other to do than sit around and try and marry her daughters off to "suitable" men. She's so worried about what other people are doing--Charlotte Lucas, Mr. Bingley, Darcy and his sisters, etc.--and I just want to reach into the book and slap her. I guess Jane Austen's purpose in giving her such a one-track personality was to make people feel the way I do about Mrs. Bennet, so in that case, we could say that she has been successful. I don't know if I could be a Victorian woman in that sense and just wait around for my prospective husband to ask me to get married--seems a little pointless.

2004-02-17T23:56:00.000-05:00

Well, I think that we've pretty well covered our explanations for the title, and I think the characters are all described so well that we could see from the beginning where the pride and prejudice would lie. But enough of that. I'd like to respond to Kat's comment. So far as I've read, the book has been mostly love stories (Darcy and Elizabeth) and smaller love stories (Lydia and the officers, for example), but I think it's hard to tell the point Austen was trying to get across. With all of the prejudice between classes, it is somewhat clear that Austen is showing the faults of such strict class structure. But it is more difficult to understand what she is saying about all of these love stories. I think that other themes in the book play alot into this one... for example, how Darcy's prejudice against people of a lower class is affecting his interest in Elizabeth. I think that in general she is suggesting that mixing such strict class structure with reasons for marriage (Charlotte marrying for money) and perhaps letting love get away because of that structure is upsetting. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say because I'm having a hard time making it make sense in writing.

2004-02-17T20:56:00.000-05:00

Wow, never judge a book by its cover, but in this case, it doesn't apply because the book has a woman on it. It appears that i've chosen this novel that has perhaps a feminist viewpoint and plot, which explains the reason that i'm the only guy reading it. Oh well.. i'm sure i'll enjoy the whole thing. I pretty much have to agree with all the wonderful analysis of the title, "Pride and Prejudice". So far, my impression of Darcy includes that he obviously takes too much pride in himself and rejects things that are unfamiliar with his usual lifestyle. I don't really like him, i hope i'm not turning against my own gender... Mrs. Bennet is extremely obsessed with getting her daughters out for marriage. (how touching, eh?) she has a set view on this idea of women absolutely needing to be married to a guy with big bucks just cause its how its "supposed to be". Prejudice, of course, lies in the class distinction in terms of marriage, and i Darcy's case, like everything. I believe that woman should not be forced into this particular sort of situation concerning marriage. thus, Mrs. Bennet needs to calm down. so far the book is surprisingly entertaining.

2004-02-17T18:12:00.000-05:00

hey kiddos it's kat...just checking in seeing as i've never done this blog business before and i just got invited. what an elite club. this website also won't let me view the blog, so i have no idea what anyone is talking about so i guess i'll just say what i think of the book thus far: i like it. i think jane is a really nice girl. the younger sisters get on my nerves with all their "officer" business. i like elizabeth, but i think she should go for darcy cause i like him too, and he obviously likes her (but i think that part is coming). i really don't like mr. collins, and i am really glad that elizabeth doesn't either and that she refuses to marry him. i also think that mr. bennet is a really great character and he really holds down the fort while mrs. bennet is running around playing the melodramatic matchmaker. they really complement each other well and mr. bennet always wins, which makes me smile. i'm trying to post this in hopes that it will then let me see the rest of the blog...so here we go maybe then i'll actually be able to say something on topic. --kat :)

2004-02-17T17:54:00.000-05:00

It seems like y'all have already had a discussion about why the book is called Pride and Prejudice and I get that part, so I'm not gonna add my repetitive lil 2 cents on that. Really, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to say, but it doesn't matter. So far, I'm enjoying the book even though the language goes above my head sometimes. I'll be reading and I'll get to a paragraph that'll be all wordy and the English is all formal, but it's actually kind of impressive in a way how Jane Austen says what she means. The dialogue is very proper and fitting for the characters, considering they are mid-to-upper class people (or so it seems in the case of the Bennet family, simply trying to be). The language keeps me on my toes and I find that I'm impressed when I can finally figure out what's going on. I'm not sure how I feel about the whole "find a man and get married to fulfill your life's destiny" idea, but then again, this is a different era.

2004-02-17T12:24:00.000-05:00

I really like the book so far, and even though i'm only on page fifty i can really see why the title was named pride and prejudice. The characters in here are so damn vain and prideful, that it really allows you to see how some people acted during that era. I am really disliking Mrs. Bennet so far because she is so set up on wanting her daughters to find a rich man to marry, that she doesn't even look at their needs. For instance, her daughter Jane was sick and had to stay at the Bingley's house because she wasn't well enough to travel to her house, but when she was, her mother wouldn't send a carriage for her (since she wanted her to overstay her welcome and have a chance with Bingley). I found this just plain stupid because when you seem too needy, you turn people off instead of gaining their affection and Mrs. Bennet is definately making her daughters seem too needy. But even though the characters seem real weird, i definately enjoy reading it because it is fun as well as easy reading, and i just can't wait to see what happens as i continue further with the book.

2004-02-16T23:01:00.000-05:00

I couldn't think of a more appropriate title for this book. It seems like all of the characters have varying degrees of pride and/or prejudice, my least favorite being Mrs. Bennet. She is so obsessed with marrying off her daughers, but it isn't for her daughter's happiness; she wants to feed her personal desire and take pride in whatever new social ties she could possibly gain from the marriage. The book continually emphasizes the importance of marriage, and I completely disagree with Mrs. Bennet and whatever tiny fragments of a mind she might have that are her own. Not all women want or need a man just because they are female and because he may be rich. She's just so shallow and makes mindless comments all of the time and it drives me crazy. If she is at all a somewhat accurate representation of societal values in England at this time, it makes me feel fortunate to live in a period where a woman doesn't have to marry to rank high in society and doesn't need a man to have worth.

2004-02-16T21:38:00.000-05:00

I agree with everything that has been said thus far about the story relating to the title of the book. I have read to chapter 33 as of now and think that almost every character has pride but especially Mrs. Bennet. She shows hers when she is at the one of the balls, boasting to everyone about how Jane will certainly marry Mr. Bingley. In response to Madison, I'm not sure what I think of Darcy. He is quite a disagreeable character, as Elizabeth might put it, and she may actually say that he is vain because she suspects of him of seeking marriage to Miss deBourgh. This would make him entitled to her large estate and preserve his name or perhaps make it more prominent. Since I have just reached this turning point, I can't say much more on that subject, but I will later. Meanwhile, for those of you who have read more, feel free to add your thoughts.

2004-02-13T15:05:00.000-05:00

I remember toward the beginning of the book more conrast between pride and vanity than pride and prejudice. I think we can all see the pride in Darcy, but I think a larger question is if we can see vanity. In chapter five, Mary explains the difference, " Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonymously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us." Later, in chapter eleven, Elizabeth defends herself, saying, " ...vanity is a weakness indeed. But pride -- where there is a real superiority of mind, pride will always be under good regulation." I think it is easy to agree with Mary's definition of the difference between pride and vanity, but it is more difficult to agree with Elizabeth's idea because the line between the two is poorly defined. Do you think that Darcy is vain? I think the strict ideas of classes in society force him into some of his pride, but I can't decide if I think he is vain.

2004-02-12T20:42:00.000-05:00

At the beginning of the novel, the trait of having pride is shown in the character of Darcy. When he refuses to dance with Elizabeth because of her looks, and upbringing, he shows the negative aspects of having too much pride. His actions make him seem cruel and shallow. The positive aspects of having pride are demonstrated in the relationship between Mrs. Bennett and her children. She takes pride in all of her children, and wants the best for them in life. There does not seem to be that many examples of prejudice in the novel yet. The idea of the wealthy marrying the wealthy and not associating with the poor could be termed as prejudice. If that is Prejudice then there is a lot of that in the novel. In many cases the pride of a character mixes with their prejudices. For instance, those characters that do not want to marry someone of a lower social status, even though they really like them. Their prejudices make them feel as if the poor are not good enough and they let their pride get in the way of them truly being happy.

2004-02-12T17:44:00.000-05:00

It seems to me that almost all of the characters have pride, to some degree. In some characters this is portrayed as a bad thing (Mr. Darcy is described as being much too proud and arrogant), but in others it's more of a positive attribute. Elizabeth is proud of her family, or at least of Jane and her father. She shows this when she sticks up for Jane to Mr. Darcy in chapter 34 (I won't go into detail in case other people haven't gotten there yet). As for prejudice, I'm not sure how much it's the characters who are prejudiced, I think more like society is. For example, there is a clearly defined separation between the rich and the poor. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to call the rich's view of the poor "prejudiced," but they certainly are not quick to marry someone below their "rank." But that's just the way things are . . . I don't think it's any individual's fault for adhering to this code, or this prejudice, it's just that that's the way things are. I was actually impressed with Mr. Darcy overcoming this prejudice to some degree -- but that's also in chapter 34 and I don't want to spoil anything so I will stop there.

2004-02-12T12:14:00.000-05:00

I've gotten to chapter five(I know slow me) but already i can see the pride in many of the characters. Mr. Bennet has pride in his favorite daughter, Lizzy. Mrs. Bennet basically has pride in all her kids, but it wavers depending on who's in favor with what gentleman at a certain time. Finally, Darcy's pride is very clear. He also diplays moments of prejudice. Which I don't feel like talking about at this moment becasue I'm lazy. Maybe later.

2004-02-11T09:58:00.000-05:00

In response to what Thomas said, I think that pride and prejudice will probably come together more when the relationships in the novel become more firmly esptablished. I'm at chapter 18 in the novel, I don't know where everyone else is. Also, I think Darcy may embody both pride and prejudice. I'm not totally sure yet, and I'm dying to learn more about his character, but he has already been referenced as proud (in chapter 5, Elizabeth says "I could his pride, if he had not mortified mine.") and in the situation with Wickham, he has shown great prejudice. I'll write more later, but I just felt like I should respond to the topic Thomas brought up.

2004-02-10T11:24:00.000-05:00

I wonder how the title will play into the novel. Both Pride and Prejudice seem to come from the same vine yet they appear to be in opposition as if one either has Pride in themselves, in their family, or background OR has a Prejudiced view of something. Does one come before one another? What is the order? Two sides of the track? Filled with both?

2004-02-09T09:51:00.000-05:00

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